Lee Johnson interview: Former Sunderland boss talks innovation and improvement as he looks to return to management | Football news

Lee Johnson has never had a year like 2024 before. The Oldham Athletic manager is only 31 years old, so far his breaks from football have been fleeting. “You become so institutionalized,” he says Sky Sports. “It was a difficult time in that sense.”

But a year after leaving Fleetwood Town, he is ready for his next challenge. “It’s not bitter, just better.” And for a manager once tipped for big things, it’s worth noting that he’s still only 43, younger than three-quarters of Premier League managers.

Johnson used his time productively, helping his daughter with her studies, but he also focused on his own development. He went to Sandhurst to see the Army in action, ran webinars for trainers and enjoyed an eclectic mix of field trips.

“The LinkedIn webinar was giving something back. Naively, I expected three or four young coaches to be interested. I had more than a thousand in my inbox.” But Johnson himself shares this desire for learning and self-improvement.

“I just came back from FC Copenhagen. Talking to the sports psychologist there was fascinating. I went to Nigeria. That was also a really interesting experience. I was just scratching the itch of curiosity, really. I’m trying to learn and learn and develop.”

In Nigeria, a big club sent him to select players from the tournament, train them and report on the best prospects. “I enjoyed the football and the country. It helped me understand the journey of some African players a little better.”

Closer to home, he has coached some of Manchester City’s fringe players to help them progress, whether through loans or new deals elsewhere. “It was another brilliant experience, working with high-quality players,” he says.

“You never knew exactly the numbers because Pep [Guardiola] I’d kick out 10 for the next pitch so I got a little taste of my own medicine!” Anyone to watch? “Alex Robertson, who’s gone to Cardiff. He’s racking up coaching points so quickly.”

The relationship with City Football Group is long-standing. Brian Marwood, director of global football at CFG, even followed Johnson when he signed for Arsenal as a teenager. They were interested in his coaching career from the beginning.

“Many months ago, the LMA organized a course for young coaches who they thought could potentially end up as England managers. There were about 15 of us. I was at Oldham and City had just started to develop a group model, looking for clubs to partner with .

“So they let me behind the curtain at the City. I worked with Gwen Byr, who was a sort of psychologist and personality profiler.” Did he learn anything as a coach from his interactions back then? “I remember they were evaluating your replacements,” he recalls.

“They called it the ‘dynamic influence of the coach’. It was about how good you are at changing the game. I was straight at the top of the list at Bristol City but Neil Warnock was at the top so I remember sitting with him in a substitute game and went through his processes. That was interesting.”

Johnson did not rule out taking on a role at CFG in the future. “There have been a few opportunities. It’s something I’d like to do at some point.” And this fits in with the fact that he still sees himself as an innovative and progressive young coach.

There was the time he helped Lloyd Kelly, who now plays for Newcastle, prepare for his debut using a virtual reality headset before a game. “It helped him visualize where the pressure is coming from when he’s on the ball. It helped him stay calm.”

He was among the first coaches in England to use drones in training and remembers the reaction when he had a big screen next to the field at Bristol City. “The next day Liverpool called and asked where we got it from because they wanted one too,” he reveals.

There’s clearly a lot to like about his approach. The difficulty is that, unfortunately, by his own admission, his career has “probably fallen off a bit” and the prospect of rebuilding further down the pyramid than suits his skills is a challenge for him.

He is proud of his four-and-a-half years at Bristol City, developing players, bringing in huge sums and taking the club to the cup semi-finals. “I think Rod Stewart used to sing that the first part is the deepest, right? It really scars you when you put so much into it.”

His record at Sunderland stands, he won the trophy at Wembley and was sacked when he was third in the table. “It was hard to accept,” he admits. “But there are always those little successes. Players like Ross Stewart, signed for Ross County, sold for £9m.”

Johnson even qualified for Europe with Hibernian before things started to fall apart. “Still, I know I made the most of what we had there.” If there is one regret in his coaching career, it is that some will not forget his short three and a half months at Fleetwood last time out.

“If Fleetwood sack you, it puts some people off, but I think it’s short-term thinking. What it’s taught me is that you really have to dig deep into the club you’re joining, know the dynamics of the team and whether you can have the impact you expect.

“You need a place where you can really implement the qualities of your work and add value to that organization. With that in mind, I’ve since been brave enough to turn down some jobs.” But Johnson understands it’s a competitive industry.

“That was a factor in taking over Fleetwood. I wanted to work. It’s difficult if you’re on the list of 200 managers. Wayne Rooney and Frank Lampard are in the Championship. You’re never sure where you fit in when big names can replace you even if your CV better.”

He considered going abroad, as his father Gary did when he accepted a job in Latvia. “I want to be brave. I want to expand my knowledge.” Domestically, he tries to be realistic about where his next opportunity is likely to take him in the football pyramid.

“I think it’s somewhere between the bottom half of the Championship and the top six of League Two. My record in the Championship holds up well. In a way, my methods are better served at a higher level. The challenge lower down is to simplify the complexity.”

But Johnson wants to keep innovating. He works with a company that uses technology to allow players to review their post-match communications by analyzing the terminology used on the field. “It could really revolutionize things,” he says.

“I think it could really get the young players up to speed and help bring in foreign signings.” Are you still studying? “This spell just allowed me to think and refine. I want to start building my career again. The more experiences you get, the better you get.”